I am not a pedophile, but my grandparents were and we've had a tragic life, our family, as a result of it. However, this type of behavior is nonsense. We're all responsible for the pedophiles out there because pedophilia is a shadow over our society, not just an individual problem, with complex roots and causes. If you ever want to grow up, practice this: I am bound to love my enemy--what greater enemy than the pedophile?

Ithink this site is very exellent i believe that the e=mc2 theory is absolutely correct and i like this site because perverts are bad. that is all.

yo iam the gangsta of this palace of perverts...........stoppers i have a dream and that si to make a palace out of perverts and paint them so thell shut up and have there thighs be removed ha ha ha ha ha

the pj site is very biased. I used to be a avid follower of that site and it's forums... I even posted a bunch of captured chats I had with the perverts, helping in the followup process.

I know that they scout out potential "busts". I set up a false screen name and when into some local regional chat rooms where i recognized some of their screen names that they use for busting people. They initiated a chat with me... not just initiated but started by saying things like, "my parent's aren't home", "I'm a virgin and very curious", "my daddy doesn't live with me", "I've seen my mommy and her boyrfriend do it".

When I confronted them with this information, they banned me from the forums. A day later, me and a friend signed in and checked out the forums... in the General Discussion section, they were talking about this former contributor that tried to set them up. They even had plans to hack my account and post personal information of me all over chat rooms.

This site is so fucking corrupt... if you don't bow down and take it in the poopshoot for them, then you're against them and they will treat you like one of their perv busts. Warning: STAY AWAY FROM THIS SITE!!!!

Hey pj is corrupt. You're a damn chicken for not even leaving your real name. You deserved to be banned. If you have something to say, come to the pj site again. Post your personal information. I'm sure we can arrange for a conference or some house calls. Don't bash something you have NO IDEA about. It's deeper than you know. You sound like you're a PERVERT supporter. Perhaps we should expose YOU!

easy children

I see. "BITE ME" is a real name then. None of the PJ's secret agents have real names. LOL. What with 100s of aliases that multiply on a daily basis, who knows who is really a so-called PJ contributor and who isn't. Speaking of real names, the PJ site is a sham from the get-go. A check on a whois search revealed that incomplete, missing and fraudulent information was given on all the domain registrations to the registrar Register.Com, one of the worlds largest Domain Registrar.

Why would someone who has a dissenting view need to be subjected to a conference or house calls? Is this still America?

December 22, "pj is corrupt" stated "then you're against them and they will treat you like one of their perv busts". Now "BITE ME" says "You sound like you're a PERVERT supporter. Perhaps we should expose YOU!". Wow, truth is stranger than fiction.

Hey pj is corrupt. You're a damn chicken for not even leaving your real name. You deserved to be banned. If you have something to say, come to the pj site again. Post your personal information. I'm sure we can arrange for a conference or some house calls. Don't bash something you have NO IDEA about. It's deeper than you know. You sound like you're a PERVERT supporter. Perhaps we should expose YOU!

This is a fine example of the typical pj "supporter". If things don't go their way, they use threatening and "strong arm" tactics to persuade people and instill fear so they'll do whatever they want. Ya want my real name, there it is... at least the name that I was under when I was in the pj forums. I also know more that you probably think I know about pj and I definately know more than I want to know after being a contributor and member of that site for so long. The true colors of that site "exposed" themselves and it's only a matter of time before that site will be taken down.

In one last note, no I'm not a previous bust or whatever you want to believe... what happened to me was totally and utterly pj's fault... I didn't "get busted" in a yahoo chat room. I was simply stating that I was tired of my posts in forums getting deleted and other members that are "on the inside" getting special treatment and favortised... when I decided to speak my mind, I was banned from the site. Still banned to this day.

I don't have any regrets towards my honest posts in these forums about what I've experienced during my time with these vigilantes. So bite me, since that is your real name, you can take this back to the forum site, and post it for everyone to troll about.

PJ is a catch-22.

I started following the site because I thought that they were really doing a service to the community...and in some cases they really are (the cases where a time and place is set up, and the person shows up for some underage companionship; that is wrong).

I started realizing a few things about the site over time:

[1] As some others have said, if you are not with them, you are against them. They claim you can speak your mind in their forums, but the reality is that if you disagree with any of their ideals, they label you a pedophile.

[2] They really seem to *enjoy* posing as children. Really. The only thing that most of them enjoy more is being able to swear non-stop and ruin lives. It is quite childish. And, they really do seem to promulgate the discussions; it would not surprise me if they initiate them as well. There are a LOT of megalomaniacs on that site for sure! Another thing, they never show you the pictures they use to lure people into conversations, although in almost every chat log the person says that they look much older than "x". The caller verification is done by adults that they say are "young" sounding. This is a house of cards in my opinion.

[3] They go to great lengths to let you know that they condemn harassment - to the point where they have an automated Word Edit bot that changes any occurence of "harass" to "contact". So, what they are really doing is acknowledging that their people do, in fact, harass...so they change the words that their people use (!?) Cheeky.

[4] They hide behind their screen names; to the point where the site owner has actually changed his name (at least in common use anyway). It is one thing to destroy lives out in the open; but anonimity means that if (when) they post the wrong person, they will scurry like roaches in light. There is no accountability.

[5] The whole site is basically run by a child (in his early 20's) who seems to be more interested in professional wrestling than anything else. LOL

So, in my mind it is a catch-22. They are doing a service some of the time I believe; other times they are ruining lives of people who are sitting across a computer screen in a fantasy world. The glee they take in ruining people's lives to me discredits them. There is no glee in that. They just enjoy the thrill of the chase. Some right results; some wrong results; mostly wrong reasons.

If this was posted on their site, they would label me a pedophile (which is laughably far from the truth). This fact, in and of itself, makes them a menace.

Hey curious,

1.) I've disagreed with others in the forums and didn't get banned or labled as a pedo. Maybe you are just special.

2.) And how did you arrive at the conclusion that they enjoy posing as childern? Sounds like a wild unfounded accusation. How fair of you.

3.) I've used the word harassment in a post and it always came up harassment. Why is that?

4.) They hide behind screen names? What do think "screen name" means? I have not seen the site owner EVER change his screen name. He has shortened it to the initials, but so have others on the net. (Sounds like we have a felony here folks!!)

5.) Wrong again, he's not in his early 20's.

BTW Leslie is my first name, I'm sure yours is not curious. How's that hon? If you're looking for first, last, home address, and SS# you can forget it!

Hey, Leslie,

1) No. Don't just disagree with "others" - who are just armchair witch-hunters like yourself. Try disagreeing with some of the site's moderators about their mission & tactics. Speak with ex-PJ contributors who were part of their cult until they ran afoul with some questions and concerns. PJ routinely bans IP addresses and turf user IDs.

2) AngryGerman (AKA Xavier Van Erck) and his pals have been posing as little girls BEFORE the PJ website came into existence. They are proud of that, and info comes from their own bios. Do some homework before assuming the best of these deviants. They get a thrill at fooling people. It's a power trip, a way to fulfill sexual fantasies while appearing to do something worthwhile. Same with other contributors. They sit through lewd conversations, sometimes watching webcam. Then the end they say something like "ewwww, I almost lost my lunch", or "I couldn't sleep that night. Sure they couldn't. They're too busy surfing more smut chat rooms.

3) No you haven't used the word "harassed" and had it stand. Look at your post now - after the fact. Unless their automated "politically correctifier filter" has broken down. They say they don't condone harassment of any kind. What they mean is, they don't condone the use of the word. Real harassment continues unabated.

4) Yes they do hide behind screen names. 100s of them. I found a list of PJ baiters IDs here: http://www.geocities.com/stop_vigilante_justice/pjbaitlst.html . The sheer numbers of IDs are overwhelming and that list is over a month old. We aren't talking about the site owner's screen name changing. He remains in the background letting his clones do the work. Oh and speaking about hiding behind screen names - "...all domains associated with a vigilante group headed by fictitious individual by the name of Xavier Von Erck.  A check on a whois search revealed that incomplete, missing and fraudulent information was given on all the domain registrations to the registrar Register.Com, one of the worlds largest Domain Registrar." Oooopsie.

5) Not in early 20's? Well he's 24 as of 2003. Unless his birthday was in January, he's still 24. Maybe we'll call it mid-20's then. Whoooptee do.

Hey PJ Buster I'm not a contributor nor do I do follow-ups so calling me an armchair witch-hunter is more than a little off the mark and not to mention just plain rude. Kind of makes the whole discussion thing distasteful.

Well... plenty of people here have their minds firmly made up and that's fine. Personally if PJ stops just one person from molesting an innocent child thats just fine with me.

Leslie, I empathise with your stance, and I agree with a lot of it. The idea of keeping pervs away from children is HIGHLY desirable. This is why I prefaced my comments with this is a "Catch-22".

I have a problem in that if PJ ever does get it wrong (well, they get a lot of stuff wrong...they constantly post incorrect info on leads, but they somehow make it OK to themselves to post this info - that has largely been harvested in dubious fashions by internet bots and placed in databases - by saying it is UNCONFIRMED), then they will scurry like roaches in the light. They will NOT, IMHO, stand up, present themselves, and take the responsibility for the error (which can, and likely will, ruin an innocent life). This is my opinion.

Oh, PJ has many checks and balances so that they do not make mistakes, you say? Well, so do airlines, but airplanes still crash. And they are more professional than this website.

The Follow-Up forum is largely rubbish. They are posting info about INNOCENT people by and large, that any psycho from the internet THAT HAS AN AGENDA is now privy to. Yes, your info might be out there anyway, but when a site like PJ posts it (UNCONFIRMED or not), they are making it a target. This is so wrong on many levels.

So, does the end justify the means? I think this perv-busting is better left to professionals, who can stand ACCOUNTABLE to the public if they screw up (i.e. they are paid by taxpayers). A bunch of vigilantes who hide behind their screen names with no accountability to the public is extremely dangerous. You say that there are not enough resources to hire professionals to do the job? I say "GO OUT AND VOTE".

Leslie,

I'm glad you feel that being lumped in with the rest of the hooded vigilantes at PJ is an abhorrent prospect. I apologize for assuming you are one of them. You haven't addressed points two through five, so i will assume I rebutted them successfully.

They have zero checks and balances. They rely on the weasely "out clause" that the forum section is not under their control. X-boy even bumbles through a legal precedent citing the Zeran Protection which would grant immunity from any damage arising out of contributor-based content. Even this has been rebutted elsewhere. Smokescreen aside, the desired effect of the PJ collective is that the primary static pages where the chats are first posted and the dynamic forum are a cohesive force that outs pedophiles. Even if there are no direct links from the chat bust to the relevant follow up. Nor are there links pointing backward. This is all legal slight-of-hand and quite deliberate. The 100s of PJ lemmings that do the legwork, the reverse lookups and such, form and feed a self-sustaining mob mentality. The entire PJ concept hinges on these loose cannons. Checks and balances?

It's interesting that shamed individuals who do not take PJ to court is somehow construed as proof that PJ is operating within the law. We read conflicting views: Xavier (AngryGerman) said "fine if they sue me, I have nothing to to lose", vs. contributor groupies who say "Xavier is putting his ass on the line... he's got a lot to lose". The degree of hero worship within that site is sickening.

What a bunch of Wanks.

Go get em PJ.

I must say that when I first heard about the site (which was on Chicago news) I was a bit skeptical. I even saw a few busts that I felt were wrong. But I admit that is because of my own ignorance. I have told many of the contributors concerns of mine and we worked together so we both understood where we were coming from. I encourage anyone on here to visit PJ and look at the busts. I have some of the most vulgar things I ever saw in my life. Police depatments, and news groups are very aware of what is going on at PJ,if anything they were doing was illegal believe me they would not be up and running. I actually was wathching the news and the chief of th police department wanted to start working with Pj. I truly feel that many of you have mis conceptions about what PJ does. I'm not a contributer but I post on the site.I take offence to being called a vigilante, how would you like one of these dirtballs after your child/neice. I think many of you need to actually look at the facts before opening your mouths. BTW- if you can't find the facts I'll gladly get them for you. Pedophilia is an uncurable disease much like alcoholism, it's not something that you can be treated for rather it is something that the pedophilia must take control over. Oh and since some you seem to be so knowledgeable, I actually work in this area I can send you many pamphlets and studies done on this disease.
Anne-That's my real name....

PJ Buster- The agents at Pj must pose as children because unfortunately the scumbags we deal with their are looking for children You are twisted for thinking this is enjoyable. But you know what is enjoyable when those dirty bastards show up to have sex with aminor they are instead greated normally by men. I think you have had a personal problem with the site and I'd like to know what it was. You are completely out of line and talking out of your ass. Many of the PEDOPHILES busted are repeat offenders, and many times the police do become involved by the community contacting them. I think you need to shut your pie hole and look into the fact, beyond what you want to see. I have dealt with many corporations, where the pedophiles worked and guess what they were FIRED you know why BECAUSE WHAT WE DO IS LEGAL. You really need to shut your pie hole, and start backing up your opinoins with FACTS. Because I have the facts. Ignorance from people like you drives me crazy.

I think this is a great site. I live in Kansas City, and they just did an investigation piece on the news where they had this site set up a meeting with a "wanna be pedophile" and then they got several news cameras waiting behind the door. The men's excuses were disgusting - one guy claimed to be "spreading the gospel" even though they had conversations with him and his picture, phone #, etc.

Also, who cares if they start the conversations, like "pj is corrupt" said. A man should be able to say no. If a woman walked up to my boyfriend or husband on the street and offered sex, he'd better say no.

Anyway, if any of you out there (who think it's a bad site) have been molested, raped, abused, etc. you'd understand why it is a good site. If men (and some women) weren't so sex obsessed, our world would be a lot better. So if I was a man who liked having sex with teenagers, and I knew this site was out there, I'd probably think twice about finding victims in a chatroom anymore, and that is the whole point of the site - to stop internet sex predators.

Anne,
No, I would not want a dirt-ball after my child/niece. Also, my child/niece would not be 13 and brag about having had sex with a lot of older men in their 20s, so that she could repeat that experience with any stranger that comes along on the chat room. You should read the chat logs again but you've already made up your mind. It's manipulation and entrapment of the worst kind. No I do not need to be sent brochures & studies on pedophilia. Maybe you should read them yourself - real sexual predators get to know their child victims for months, even years. Not a 1/2 hour chat. Real pedophiles initiate contact, initiate phone calls - not the other way around where the so-called "child" calls him as in EVERY one of PJ's busts. The people being baited do not exhibit the behavior of real pedophiles - they are just chatting. You make the same mistake so many people do - jump to conclusions. Since you work "in this area", heaven help us all. You seem to be predisposed to think the worst of anyone using lewd language ("worst vulgar things"). Welcome to the internet, where nothing is what it seems.

Yes indeed the baiting is enjoyed by these PJ'ers. It's a power trip, and it's "payback time" for some of the contributors who have had traumatic child-abuse done to them. They are not objective. You say many of the PEDOPHILES busted are repeat offenders. It is a fact that PJ has not re-busted a single properly convicted pedophile, nor that any have been charged and convicted subsequent to PJ's work. PJ operates strictly outside of legal channels, and is proud to continue in that vein. They shun media & 1st contact police exposure. I wonder why. You have dealt with corporations where pedophiles worked? In what capacity? Employee? Or you called them up to get people fired? Please look into the reasons people get fired. Reasons such as misuse of computers during company time (a typical catch-all) - which ironically many PJ'ers are guilty of themselves. I don't think "talking out of your ass" and "shut your pie hole" are constructive. Those are personal insults and demonstrates the level of hatred and prejudice that permeate PJ's operation.

Elizabeth,
"Who cares if they start the conversation"... interesting. This is the main point PJ uses to remain above-board. I guess it doesn't matter now. I would agree that if the PJ site had the side-effect of stopping real sexual predators from finding teenage victims, it would be a good thing. But judging by the level of sexually aggressive language the PJ baiters routinely use, I'd say the real victims are the hapless & bored men who chat and are suckered into remaining on the line to see where the conversation leads.

Elizabeth,

For your information entrapment is defined as telling an alledged suspect about the evidence collected at a scene and how it was used in the commision of a crime to get them to confess to the crime in question. PJ is in no way using entrapment.

Clearly PJ has developed a system that is effective for catching people who are intending to commit a crime, quite possibly the only way to catch people who intend to commit this specific crime without endangering children.

However where are the fail safes, where are the checks and balances? Furthermore who is monitoring, reviewing, and storing the logs of these conversations? What is to keep someone from editing the logs, what is to keep someone from posting a entirely fraudulent report?

I agree with the guidlines they have set up as follows, they use non-adult-only chatrooms to bait, they do not initiate contact, they phone and meet there targets before they post them, and they allow right of reply.

However what proof is supplied that they are following these guidelines? I don't see any proof that these guidelines are being strictly enforced. I only hope goverment established law enforcement takes over before this weapon is turned on a innocent target and misused.

--------------------------------------------------
What follows is a seemingly pointless rant that best describes my biased view, it does not need to be read.

(sarcasm>
I got drunk once, I am a alcoholic. I know some scientific terminology, I am a doctor.
</sarcasm)

I was moleseted at the age of 6. I consider my sexual prefrences perverted from the mainstream of America, I am not a pedophile. I have had sexual propositions over the internet from people claiming to be underage, multiple times, and have never agreed to telephone or meet anyone. I had to tell many of the people propositioning me no 6 or 7 times over periods as long as 2 months, during that period they would often send me explicit messages that were not initiated by me. These propositions not only have taken place in chatrooms but in mainstream online videogames as well. I have talked dirty before "cybersex" in ADULTONLY chatrooms. To the best of my knowledge I have never been "busted" on a site such as PJ. I am a male in my mid twenties who plays way to many video games.

People who give out personal information over the internet to someone they do not know in real life are either ignorant or foolish. People who think they can know and trust someone without knowing them, the company, or the reputation are equally ignorant or foolish. (Look closely at that last sentance, hint: it is directed in reference to two groups of individuals in this case)

Hopefully this will open some parents eyes about the dangers of the internet, hopefully this will show the cops how to properly do the job, hopefully congress will look into this, hopefully someone the public knows and trusts will take over before the defamation suit hits.

Crimes are clearly being commited against children using the internet as a weapon, someone has developed a good system to fight those crimes. I support the work and the method but sadly in the case of PJ, not the people.
-------------------------------------------------

I spent over a hour writing and reviewing this I apologize for the length and the jumpy thought proccess, I take what I consider a dangerous stance in this article, I hope you concur.

Thank you for letting me waste your time while I got my voice on.

Where did PJ go? I went to recheck a story and it isn't there anymore.

Any info?

The link at the top of this page works.

This was posted by PJ buster:
I don't think "talking out of your ass" and "shut your pie hole" are constructive. Those are personal insults and demonstrates the level of hatred and prejudice that permeate PJ's operation.

Earlier PJ Buster posted this:
Don't just disagree with "others" - who are just armchair witch-hunters like yourself.

WHO is demonstrating a level of hatred and prejudice??

Leslie

Witch-hunters / baiters / entrappers / stalkers / vigilantes - these are terms to describe the collective behavior of PJ and its followers, and you may agree or disagree. Using language such as "talking out of your ass" and "shut your pie hole" are profanities. Surely you can see a difference. I believe in a forum such as this many opinions are welcome. I would not tell you to shut your pie hole just because we disagree. If you want to shout me down in this manner instead of debating intelligently, then I will no loner respond to any points you make.

easy children.

I don't understand how some of you people can actually sympathize with these twisted individuals, by saying that they were "baited", and that it's not exactly their fault since the "teenage girl" said she has sex with men in their twenties. OH...that makes it legal and permissable. That's just sick...how could you even BEGIN to try to make excuses for them? As for somebody saying their children or niece wouldn't be on the chat site anyways...how do you know? Everyone wants to live in this fantasy world where they are the perfect parents, with the perfect children...Fact of the matter is, children, (that would be a 13 year old) are very impressionable and easily influenced whether you want to admit it or not, whether they are yours or not. If you want to dispute that then you are clearly in denial.
I am so passionately for this site because my mother was a victim of a pedophile...her own father, for 12 years...and yes, he molested children he did not know as well. He was a monster, and I can just imagine the kind of sick, sick, perverted hayday he would have had, had todays technology been available to him.
I don't care how "baited" you are...any normal person would just ignore a user who claimed to be underage, let alone significantly underage.
Let them live in their little fantasy worlds huh? How about they live their little fantasy through someone who is OF AGE? It is not normal to fantasize about little girls. Hell, I didn't even got my period till I was 14! These are sick, evil people, and I can't help but think that if you try to dispute that, it's just plain and simple sympathy for the Devil.

"...saying that they were "baited", and that it's not exactly their fault since the "teenage girl" said she has sex with men in their twenties". So we are to supposed to dismiss such slutty behavior, or at the very least assume it's fantasy chat on her part, yet make the assumption anything the adult says is automatically real and carries intent.

"As for somebody saying their children or niece wouldn't be on the chat site anyways...how do you know?" I'm not saying kids don't go onto chats. I'm saying kids who have had reasonable parenting would NOT have had sex with people twice their age and then brag about it to perfect strangers, like the PJ baiters do. This is a scenario that might be possible, but does not ferret out real sexual predators who prey on innocence.

Remember these are adult (college aged punks or embittered women with man-hating agendas reliving their innocence) fantasizing being underaged teens, carrying on explicitly sexual conversations and all the while mocking and giggling behind the wanna be's back. You don't find that disturbing in any way? You don't see this site as a haven for closet pedophiles living out their own twisted, sick, perverted fantasies - then feigning disgust at the end to wash their hands and to garner support for their cause? You say "It is not normal to fantasize about little girls". How about fantasizing about BEING little girls on a daily basis for hours on end. How sick and evil is that?

I know it would be rather sick to talk to a child like that for ANY reason. But haven't any of you talked in a chat room and misrepresented yourselves? Once I pretended I was a single person again and chatted with someone. Mind you we were both adults (I would assume) and I was able to cut off the conversation once it became uncomfortable.

I think the PJ people are running a fine line here. They do brag about flooding people with emails, calls and other various forms of intimidation. They talk about sending mailers to the neighbors and posting things around the neighborhood. They have had the wrong person before. I think it would serve a better purpose if they were able to work with law in the area and instead of just having people write the Right of Reply with words that may mean nothing, actually either have people face criminals charges or therapy.

Yes, Meg. Fantasy in chats is commonplace. We may regard any references to underaged persons - the baiter or the baitee as sicko. But heck, it's not real. PJ'ers make the leap that the adult's chat is real, and thus they proceed to ruin the person's job, family life, etc. It goes beyond phone-calls and neighborhood flyers to defame. It extends seamlessly to real vandalism and personal threats - from 100s of uncontrolled, anonymous, and possibly pre-adolescent PJ lemmings who follow along on the forums. The actual PJ contributors distance themselves by this point - because they know they are on shaky legal ground.

It's not "PJ may go over the fine line one day" - it's they are doing so on a daily basis.

The RoR (right of reply) is but another bait-and-switch, whereby the victim is given the impression his personal information be removed and harassment will stop if he submits to self incrimination. Nothing about PJ is sincere. It's all about vengeance. Not doing anything positive.

But you and I both know that no matter how rational we try to debate this, someone will scream "won't somebody please think of the children" - and we're all supposed to feel like pedophiles for not falling lock-step into PJ's methods.

I would think most of us would find the people who actually showed up to have sex with a minor to be beyond defense as to the accusations made, at least I know I do.

The problem is this group of vigilantes operates on "guidelines" and not rules. The diffrence being a guideline is a recommended course of action and a rule being something that makes or breaks a bust. In otherwords regardless of what course of action you think they are taking in reality they are doing whatever they feel like.

Which leads to this statement which was made earlier in this discussion: "any normal person would just ignore a user who claimed to be underage". This may come as a surprise but there are actually men ages 18-70 who can have a non sexual conversation and frankly I don't think males from the age of 18 and up should have to live in fear of every l33thax0r gamer they cross summoning up a entourage of Mcarthiysts to do whatever they can to setup a person to be publicly ridiculed.

Now granted this would not be an issue if they operated on any kind of rules of engagement, but the simple fact is they research by guidelines alone, guidelines which can be followed or broken whenever the advocate of the site feels like it.

If you look into the forums of there site you can see some of the very important and serious issues and yes some of the people they feature of very serious threats to society. While you are there you can also see the thread where they post the phone number to the legal council of one of the busts from the KCTV5 news/PJ sting operation. They are laughing about how they called it so many times that his lawyer just answered the phone with "$%#^ you" when he grew sick of the harrassment.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I would say a mutually arranged meeting between a sexually promiscuous kid and an adult, where the kid chatted at length planning sex acts in detail, the kid encouraged the adult to bring booze, pot & condoms, the kid telephoned the adult, where the kid gave explicit instructions to her home address... in no way convinces me that the people who do show up are serious threats to society at large.

Interesting point about rules vs. guidelines. We are told that PJ operates under a strict code, that their operatives are rigorously screened and trained. Trouble is we are never shown this document of rules of conduct, if it even exists. Where there are no rules of engagement made public, we are told to take their word for it. The diverse behavior of the PJ agents seems to point towards a lack of cohesive vision. We are mere observers of what PJ allows us to see. Their warm and fuzzy reassurances of internal structure are all hearsay.

If someone shows up at a house with the verbal expressed intention of having sex with a minor that is clearly intention to commit statutory rape, regardless of your ethical view. There is no defense against that except the possibility of a entirely fraudulent report, which is not impossible especially in the case of citizen informants, but I consider it to be highly unlikely in this case considering the sheer amout of evidence supplied. You might find yourself hard pressed to find someone who disagrees. The result for these intentions is punishment. Is that punishment fitting? Whole nother discussion which is only some what relevant to my objection.

I don't want to see the rules or whatever the method is, that would be reverse productive to their vision. The problem is that they have NO RULES. They have guidlines which are not rules but rather guides that can be followed if you feel like it.

For instance you might find something like "As a general rule we do not take tips" or "part of the guidelines for finding a potential bust is that the perv initiates contact". How about phone verification on all posted busts? As a matter of fact they actually have busts posted with only a first name, a picture, and a screenname, with the notation "this is a good start".

The diffrence between a general rule and a rule?

A general rule has exceptions, for it to be a general rule it must have been broken or have exceptions. Truely nothing more then guidelines they follow at their own leisure.

"If someone shows up at a house with the verbal expressed intention of having sex with a minor that is clearly intention to commit statutory rape, regardless of your ethical view". - Correct, according to the laws of the land. I agree.

"There is no defense against that except the possibility of a entirely fraudulent report, which is not impossible especially in the case of citizen informants, but I consider it to be highly unlikely in this case considering the sheer amout of evidence supplied." - Um, considering the fraudulent basis under which the PJ websites operate [ domain registration irregularities ]; the shady past exploits and current anonymity and no police background checks of all of its members; the improperly generated, dubious client-side vs. proper impartial server-side chat extract; the tampering of said evidence by arbitrary editorial supplements; the editing out of key elements of text; the lack of date/time stamp information of chat logs; the quick removal of baiter's profile pic and/or change of age as was reported several times by the "busted" people; subsequent follow-up chats with the assumed same wanna be pedo, although in at least one recent case a PJ agent admits to having it fabricated; the countless aliases all of the PJ adherents carry - so we don't know from one day to the next if even their own staff is consistently who they say they are........ geeez. I see no credible evidence at all.

"As a matter of fact they actually have busts posted with only a first name, a picture, and a screenname, with the notation "this is a good start".

Do you have a link for that?

Apologize for the length in advance, I don't want to come off biased, honestly im not, this whole thing disturbs me.

***Warning all links provided below should be considered sexually explicts and disgusting. Not work safe etc.***

***WARNING SEE ABOVE***

Finding a link like this http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/seekinfo/seekcac.htm in the forums of PJ really opens your eyes to the potential of the site and the work. Individuals such as these could be found and identified by PJ's method, and that I fully support. Doing research on PJ has been mentally and emotionally painful, I found myself having difficulty holding a decent conversation at dinner after checking into some areas to back my former accusations. Since I was doing it ownly to gratify my own curiosity I've had my fill of this discussion and the topic entirely is one I wish would go away. I do not support any of the people who might be in the following links, I just want to point out the fact that people who believe someone entirely only knowing there screenname (which pretty much sums up how the public knows all the contributors to PJ and ironically how the targets know there bait) easliy could be making a mistake.

Before I continue and finish my part in any discussion on this topic I state once again I support the work, but not always the people or the amount of harrasment some of targets receive.
Related PJ faq http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?
pg=faq#41.

First and for most.

"As a matter of fact they actually have busts posted with only a first name, a picture, and a screenname, with the notation "this is a good start".

http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?
archive=glowy777_withchrist

Taken from this page is the following quote. "This is an anonymous submission from Portland. Well, not really anonymous, I know who this person is. You just don't need to. This is this individuals first submission. The second one this individual did netted me a phone number, which is how I like them. The submitter didn't know that was a must, and this is dirty enough to add. So I'm making a one time exception to the rule due to this wannabe having "with christ" in his IM name. One of these days I'll set the guidelines for submission pieces."

Notice the mention of a one time exception, then notice the following exceptions.

http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?
archive=camaromarv17846
http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?
archive=nice_guy95128
http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?
archive=lonelyone69692003
(above had a wrong number, how long was the wrong number up)
http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?
archive=Lookn4nowru
http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?
archive=caffeine_junkie69
http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?
archive=pil0_48

None of these, links contain the "This is a good start" quote. Maybe I did not look hard enough or maybe it was on another page and I took it out of contect, either way I'm done, so I'll just apologize for it rather then hurt my eyes anymore. My bad.

You might also want to consider the fact that in the 3 days I have fixiated on this discussion/site the number one most slimey as voted by users was discovered to have what is believed to be a fake picture on his bust, this is discussed in the followup forums. The picture was up for 3 days or longer. http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?archive=notonyourlife2002

You can also go to the listings by phone number add up all the numbers as listed in notation by state and compare that number with the total number of logs featured on the right side.

Slightly off topic, but still on the subject of exceptions.

http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?
archive=felixxx60

- "I PMed Isaac as a 14 yr old girl, I did it mostly on a lark- I expected he'd know right away what was going on"

http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?
archive=nwautomedia

Busted in a romance chat room, which is still regional, so not really a exception per say, but I thought it was interesting.

http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?
archive=girls_lust_4_me_97015 (broken up for page)

- "I was snooping on my friend's boyfriend in a chat" Not really related to the bust, not a big deal, thought it was kind of related to recieving a tip, second thought not really a issue.

I gathered this info by listing the profiles by user vote and starting at the least slimy as per user vote and working up to the most slimy. I made it to about 350, meaning 350 more profiles to go, realized I wasnt even looking for useful information to the discussion and decided to stop tortureing myself.

I do not support any of the profiles listed nor their disturbing activities. If one of these men are caught http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/seekinfo/seekcac.htm is it all worth it? I personally don't want to think about it. I'm done with this issue thank you for letting my voice my opinion and I bid you adieu.

I first saw the info on the perverted justice program on TV and I'd have to say that they have named their program appropriately, for it is truly a perversion of justice. These people are definitely enticing people who are lonely and sexually frustrated to fantasize about an encounter with an underage person. Then they persecute them for the emotions that they bring to fruit. I'd have to say that in all probability they create more deviants than they stop. They should be stopped, as they are truly sick individuals.

Hey lets all face up to the fact that the reason there is so much perversion in the first place is because of the influence of the christian church. If sex wasn't considered dirty, people wouldn't become deviates in the first place.
For example the whole country is pissed because Janet Jackson showed a breast on tv. But it's ok to show murder after murder ad infintum.
That is what is perverted. Perhaps the people who spend there time busting the perverts would instead focus on changing the way society views sexuality in the first place their wouldn't be so many individuals who prey upon the young for sexual gratification. But no that would be wrong to their twisted minds. I am not anti Jesus, just anti christianity as it is a perversion of what he taught. And unfortunately the christians have poisoned the world in the guise of saving it. They are rabid murderers at heart and those who participate in the Perverted Justice program are just haters who hide their violent tendencies behind the facade of helping society. I just wish the Romans would have fed all of the Bastards to the lions in the first place, the world would not be as messed up as it is. For instance we would not have a mass murdering president who was put in power by the Religous Right. Bush is a bigger terrorist than all of the Muslims combined. He has killed more innocent Muslims by far than they have killed innocent Americans. And I don't like the Muslims or the Jews either. They like the Chritians are so sure they are right that they feel justified in killing those who differ from them. All three religions come from the same historical background and they all are poison.
And yes I hide my identity, I don't need any crosses burned on my lawn.

well i got posted on pj and i am only 16. didn't know it was perverted for a 16 y/o to want a 14 y/o. fags

This is one of THE MOST interesting (albeit disturbing) discussions I've ever stumbled upon by accident on the internet. I have to say the desire to "get" the REAL dangerous individuals out there is something on which we all can agree. However there are some really very articulate and compelling arguments made here as to why the PJ "gang" (?) should not be allowed to run unchecked! No easy answers in life are there

This is great. I've been waiting a long time for someone to get up and go off like this. Good for you.

But you might wanna spell it like this: atheist. Just a heads up.

Big ups to all the pervs, semi-pervs, non-pervs, perv watchers, and kids... for making my site #1 !!!!

PJ Buster, Your right I have no business talking like that but I'm extremely frustrated after reading your logs. The bottom line is just about everything you are saying is incorrect, you have no facts about PJ just your opinions. Since you think PJ is so corrupt/fradulent stop talking about it and do something. I suggest you call your local police department and govenment officials first thing in the morning. I mean you KNOW so much about law and everything this should be a piece of cake. I assume you will update us once you bring them down.
BTW- How do you think cops bust these guys? Oh I know they pose as children. You better start making calls right away to let them know it's against the law.

LOOK WHAT PJ BUSTER THINKS:
"I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I would say a mutually arranged meeting between a sexually promiscuous kid and an adult, where the kid chatted at length planning sex acts in detail, the kid encouraged the adult to bring booze, pot & condoms, the kid telephoned the adult, where the kid gave explicit instructions to her home address... in no way convinces me that the people who do show up are serious threats to society at large."

Well, PJ Buster that's a huge limb you have gone out on. You are entitled to your on opinion on what PJ does, but don't present your opinoins like they are facts. Also, your remarks above show your ignorance.

Go "Anne"!!

Go "PJ Buster"!!

Go "NobodyImportant"!!

Go "Meg"!!

Go "BITE ME"!!

Go "curious"!!

Go "Leslie"!!

And even "All4PJ" gets a big shout out...

... for keeping this damn thread alive since JUNE 04, 2003!!!

I heard about PJ for the first time today because they were being discussed on a radio show. Check out http://www.troubleshooter.com Check the affiliate list at that site and see if you might catch a net stream of the upcoming weekend shows Saturday or Sunday I'm sure they will repeat it. It was a hot topic. They pretty much spent the entire 3 hours talking about it, so if you are curious see if you can catch it online (or on the radio if you live in the right place)

Gobble Gobble- What was the screen name you used?? Since your 16 it is not against the law for you to talk to a 14 year old. I want to fully investigate this allegation. I have a hard time believing it, but if your willing to give me the screen name I would be happy to look into it.

PJ Buster, You sure can dish out nasty comments but you can't take em. I told you to stop talking out of your ass because frankly, that's what your doing. I take my apology back. You make some of the most riduculous/unfounded accusations.

This is a yet another quote from PJ Buster
"Remember these are adult (college aged punks or embittered women with man-hating agendas reliving their innocence) fantasizing being underaged teens, carrying on explicitly sexual conversations and all the while mocking and giggling behind the wanna be's back. You don't find that disturbing in any way? You don't see this site as a haven for closet pedophiles living out their own twisted, sick, perverted fantasies - then feigning disgust at the end to wash their hands and to garner support for their cause? You say "It is not normal to fantasize about little girls". How about fantasizing about BEING little girls on a daily basis for hours on end. How sick and evil is that"

You actually have the nerve to call me a pedophile. Well I'll go on the limb here and say YOU ARE THE PEDOPHILE. You are way to angry at an organization you know nothing about. So yes shut your pie hole till you come up with some concrete facts, because so far nothing you have said is intelligent.
For all the rest of you who want to see what's up for yourselves here's a link to a five day investigation done in Kansas last week, they have done quite a few of these "stings" with news groups there available on the PJ site.
I do apologize to all the open minded people willing to give PJ a chance. I don't like to be rude, but when people are flat out lying about an organization that is trying to help others I do get upset.
http://kctv5.com/Global/category.asp?C=9271&nav=1PucKe8p

Anne said - "The bottom line is just about everything you are saying is incorrect, you have no facts about PJ just your opinions".

Why don't you make it easy for me then. All I have to go by is the observation of conduct of PJ. By your last comment pertaining to 16-year-old Gobble's claim of having been busted: "I want to fully investigate this allegation..." - can I assume you're a PJ agent? Why didn't you say so in the first place. What is your REAL screen-name - are you one of the primary PJ contributors? On Feb 6th you said "I'm not a contributer but I post on the site". Ok, just how much do you expect to be able to "fully investigate"? As much as they let you, right? Are you privileged to their internal records? Do you have the power to remove questionable "busts"? Do you have the power to repair lives that have been ruined?

While you're having a board meeting with their executive, would you please post PJ's screening process of their staff, the official code-of-conduct of contributors, the official rules-of-engagement, the official guidelines for submission pieces from renegade followers. I sure would love to have more facts, don't ya know.

Oh, why do I even take you seriously. With an email address like yours "lilqt6137" (pronounced "little cutie"), you're one of those little-girl-wannabe role-players yourself. Shame on you for also working "in this area" [ implication made by you that in some capacity you battle pedophilia as a sanctioned duty of your employ ].... does your employer know how you're spending your nights posing as an underaged child and arranging sex dates? If so, please post the name of the company and an official letter from your employer to confirm he endorses the work of PJ. PJ could use an official endorsement from a child-protection agency. It would be a first.

You're welcome, eric (www.stinkzone.com). Your BLOG lucked out of the 14 or so ones that carry this topic. Congratulations. All the best. If I may be so bold for some shameless self-promotion - the PJ antidote: http://www.geocities.com/pjbuster2003/

PJ Buster or should I call you pedophile go to the main PJ page that willdirect you to the info your looking for. Like I said I'm not a contibutor, but I post often. I do have access to lots of information, so yes it is quite easy for me to investigate gobble. Who are you to ask me for anything PJ BUSTER ( I assume that's your real name). You still have not backed any of your allegations up. It's funny how you keep ranting and raving about your thoughts. Who cares what you think. Did you look at the news link? Have you contacted your local police to report the crimes going on? I bet not, you are a coward. You are a bitter pedophile. Shame on you for being such a complete idiot.. What was you screen name pedophile???

Um. Anne said: "You actually have the nerve to call me a pedophile. Well I'll go on the limb here and say YOU ARE THE PEDOPHILE"

Did I call you a pedophile? I said that we must seriously look at the very real possibility that PJ is a haven for closet pedophiles. That is disturbing. Even a haven for people with sexual deviant fantasies can employ moral, rational people. Perhaps you are one of them. You seem awfully defensive, and you read what you want to read.

Yes, please go out on a limb tossing "YOU ARE THE PEDOPHILE" accusation at me. That's PJ's specialty. You fit right in. You're toying with a slander suit. Why, even PJ tippy-toes around this terminology by saying "wanna be pedophile". This is a prudent legal maneuver. You better re-read your official PJ member's hand-book. When PJ falls, it will be due to you and others who react out of anger and break laws.

I don't know why I need to explain myself over and over, but I have NOT been an ex-"bust", a victim of PJ's defamation machine, I have not knowingly chatted with underaged persons (if they lie about their adult age, then what can I do), I have never fantasized sexually about underaged persons. I DO NOT SUPPORT PEDOPHILIA. Sorry for the shouting. You are using Bush's logic - "if you're not for us, you're a terrorist [ substitute pedophile ]"

I have read most of everyones comments, and I must say that I was at one time a supporter, not a contributor. However I thought one day that I wouldnt be that hard to steal someones information and act as them in a conversation with a PJ baiter. So I wrote to the site owner and he dared to me to do it, because he said it could never be done. Well living with three roomates and all of them have PC's, cell phones, and Yahoo IM accounts it didnt take long for one of them to leave their phone at home and we all leave our Yahoo IM's turned on. So I just logged on to chat did a search for one of the more popular PJ batier screen names, and there I was sitting in a room with the baiter with my roomates IM and his cell phone in my hand. It wasnt that hard and diffently not impossible like the site owner said it would be. Wow I coucld have ruined his life. In fact since then I can not get a respnse from the site owner. So Im sure in all the supporters eyes Im a perv because as it has been said if your not for them then they are against you. Well Im not a perv and infact I am a victim. I was rapped and molested as a child...enough said. PJ has never had one conviction and most law enforcement does not support PJ. IF you want to get involved go to PedoWatch.com or CyberAngels.org they are real sites that have a real mission and are legit. By the way neither of those two site support PJ. PJ is militant and have no real mission. So you embarras someone, then what? Get into a real cause that actually helps people. It is ok to get off the PC to get involved there is a whole world of help out there that dosent involve the PC. These guys are not professionals and are takeing the chance of ruining someones life that is innocent.

"Ok, just how much do you expect to be able to "fully investigate"? As much as they let you, right?"

I would think that if Anne wanted to talk to someone that claims they were "busted" at 16 years old, she could do so without needing approval from PJ.

PJ Buster, IMO, many of your so called "facts" on your website would carry more weight if you had something to back them up with.

"So I just logged on to chat did a search for one of the more popular PJ batier screen names, and there I was sitting in a room with the baiter with my roomates IM and his cell phone in my hand."

How would you do a search for one of the more popular PJ screen names? I haven't gone through every name that they have used, but the ones that I have looked at are not valid yahoo names anymore.

Are you serious. They use the same name many times and you can see that fromt he fomer busts. Thats all Im saying Im not looking to fight but thats what happend. dont be pissed at me cause I was able to do it.

Anne said: "PJ Buster or should I call you pedophile go to the main PJ page that willdirect you to the info your looking for." What information am I looking for again?

No, "PB Buster" is not my real name. Since you've already labeled me as a pedophile, as I knew you would, I wouldn't want you and your cohorts to start stalking me. Yep, sometimes people who are cautious and wish to remain anonymous are perfectly innocent - we just don't like to have our lives ruined with false accusations. You've already started that process by labeling me. Who cares about your real name anyhow. You're PJ's slave... tell us Xavier's [ PJ cult leader ] real name and we might get someplace. Let him stand face-to-face with me in a court of law and accuse me of being a pedophile. Actually, to give them credit, I wouldn't be surprised if you get a yelling-at by a PJ'er - for throwing unfounded accusations around in PJ's name. They have shown a little more integrity than you have. I can't believe I'm saying that.

Oh, and regarding the bogus investigative news of KCTV 5... You have some serious blinders on. For every sensationalistic media scoop that PJ takes out-of-context and uses to boosts their own egos with, there is a real story behind-the-scenes. "US District Attorney's office in Kansas City responds to airing of KCTV 5 predator story" and "Kansas City CBS Affiliate KCTV 5, comes under fire for it's airing of controversial story supporting Perverted Justice. com". Read the full story on http://www.geocities.com/stop_vigilante_justice/ .

Blah, Blah, Blah. I'm still waiting for your facts...
Did ya call the authorities. Why don't you prove yourself smarty pants and back up what your saying.
Any yes pedo buster I do think your a pedophile. I will quote you once again.
" I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I would say a mutually arranged meeting between a sexually promiscuous kid and an adult, where the kid chatted at length planning sex acts in detail, the kid encouraged the adult to bring booze, pot & condoms, the kid telephoned the adult, where the kid gave explicit instructions to her home address... in no way convinces me that the people who do show up are serious threats to society at large.

You are a twisted person. So because the kid talks about sex it's o.k. Unfortunately parents cannot babysit their kids 24/7. There are lots of vulnerable kids out there. Do I think it's right that a child would talk like that to a adult, no: would I want my kid to talk like that, definately not. The fact is regardless of what we want this is what's going on out there. I would be more than happy to help any organization I KNOW AND CAN PROVE is doing good.

Your right you don't need to explain your self over and over. No one has asked you too I have simply asked you to give me one concrete fact you have and I've still seen none.

Yes I labeled you a pedophile and you labeled everyone at PJ:
"Remember these are adult (college aged punks or embittered women with man-hating agendas reliving their innocence) fantasizing being underaged teens, carrying on explicitly sexual conversations and all the while mocking and giggling behind the wanna be's back. You don't find that disturbing in any way? You don't see this site as a haven for closet pedophiles living out their own twisted, sick, perverted fantasies - then feigning disgust at the end to wash their hands and to garner support for their cause? You say "It is not normal to fantasize about little girls". How about fantasizing about BEING little girls on a daily basis for hours on end. How sick and evil is that?"

Why don't you Pj on your list of people to call. I'm sure I'll be in big trouble. I believe I already said I'm not a contributor, therefore I'm not representing/speaking on their behalf. I can call you a pedophile all I want, after all you have tossed out many slanderous remarks yourself. I'm done with you, you have no facts only opinions..

Oh, Anne. You are getting tedious. When I said "I'm going to go out on a limb here,... in no way convinces me that the people who do show up are serious threats to society at large" - I was making the point that setting up a meeting like that is not the behavior of the classic definition of a sexual predator who preys on innocent victims, kidnaps, murders, etc. I did NOT claim that a conversation such as that excuses or condones an adult's behavior. I was responding to your assertion that people who chat, or even show up, are a "serious threats to society". But now according to you I'm twisted. Heck, I read those sites (real ones) that explain seriously about what pedophilia is so that I could be better equipped to read the chat logs and determine if the wannabe fit that description. Your loose accusations leveled at me demonstrate you have not done due diligence in researching this topic at all.

Now you say you "would be more than happy to help any organization I KNOW AND CAN PROVE is doing good". Are you now saying you DO NOT in fact work "in the field" for a child-protection agency of some sort at this time? You wish to work for such an agency... OK. You say you wish to help any organization you know. Didn't you say you are a relative new-comer to PJ? Can you furnish proof that PJ is doing good? Or is it merely your own sense of self-worth to go through the motions that is the issue. Do some real good and support legitimate organizations why don't you. And if you're already doing that as you implied before, then please inform your boss of what you are doing in your spare time at PJ. Are you using company time to use your PC to so busts or comment on their forums? May I have the phone number of your employer so that I can tell them how you misuse company computers? People have been fired for that, you know. If your boss is OK with it however, then I will expect your company's logo to be displayed on PJ's website as a proud supporter of their cause.

Josh
"Are you serious. They use the same name many times and you can see that fromt he fomer busts. Thats all Im saying Im not looking to fight but thats what happend. dont be pissed at me cause I was able to do it."

I've seen where they have used the same name 2 or 3 times, but not many. Do you have examples?

PJ Buster
""US District Attorney's office in Kansas City responds to airing of KCTV 5 predator story" and "Kansas City CBS Affiliate KCTV 5, comes under fire for it's airing of controversial story supporting Perverted Justice. com". Read the full story on http://www.geocities.com/stop_vigilante_justice/"

That's not what I would call a legitimate resource. IF it is that big of a deal, are there any legit news sources that have the story?

How sad that it has come to this. Regardless of whether or not this site is corrupt, the focus has gone from wanting to help children to immature name calling and one-uping each other over an issue that clearly has two valid arguments.

I can honestly say I see both sides. Sure, if innocent lives have been ruined, or have the potential to be, then something should be done. Yes, the PJer's need to be accountable for their actions, as does everybody.

But I must say I was surprised when I read that someone thinks 13 and 14 year old girls "with good parenting" don't brag about their sexual experiences online. Well they do. I am 24 now, and when I was 13, at least half of my friends were sexually active and the pressure was on. I waited, but many others did not (even the ones with the "perfect parents"!!). "Slutty behavior" someone said? Ok, we're name calling again, and maybe it is considered immoral, but they are children. Children do not have the same mental capacity that adults (hopefully) do. They act more out of impulse, and sometimes even peer pressure. They make mistakes, and need redirection. Rather than calling them names and excusing the pedophiles that feed on a teenager's exploratory and rebelious nature, we need to help them.

...And regardless of how so called "slutty" girls are parented, they should NOT be victims of pedophiles no matter WHO their parents are and the quality of parenting they receive.

Like I said before, I am still divided as to whether or not I agree with the site in general. I like the fact that it may deter would-be pedophiles from using the internet to prey on children... perhaps this concept could be reconstructed into something that is legally and morally accountable yet saving our children at the same time.

But whatever the outcome, the kids need you to stop bickering and start being there for them.

SMX said: "IF it is that big of a deal, are there any legit news sources that have the story?"

It's in the works. Media drags their feet when faced with a possible retraction story. The content of those telephone interviews with US Districts Attorney's Kansas City Missouri office Consumer Relations division, and the one with Meredith Broadcasting (owner of KCTV 5) Corporate Relations office, as described on that site are real and took place. That much I do know. I am down-and-dirty addressing the PJ issue, more than just babbling opinion here or on a website. Real people are being contacted - from legal authorities, attorneys, right down to PJ "bust" victims who's former employers need to get a booster shot-reminder of company policy and legal recourse. For whatever that's worth coming from me.

You must also realize, that doing a proper treatment of the PJ menace in the media would require more than mere video and sound bites... possibly much more than what most people would consider attention grabbing or good entertainment value. To fully explain the intended good PJ is ostensibly doing, vs. the real harm and potential for misuse by vindictive individuals who see PJ as a convenient tool to "out" a perfectly innocent individual, would require some real discussion by a panel from all sides of the issue. Not by yet more hooded vigilantes from PJ - telephone interviews or masked video clips of anonymous people who represent themselves as spokespeople for PJ.

Until that organization comes clean and is not afraid to show they are operating from a position of legitimacy, the media's one-sided coverage of PJ's exploits is nothing but a ratings-getting exercise. Do you hear yourself? To say "if it was on TV it must be true". That's as silly as saying because PJ has a website (an in fact no bricks-and-mortar headquarters outside of this cyber-reality), they must be doing good things. That just because they have several thousand anonymous registered users salivating at the prospect of furthering their stalking hobby, (none of which are adult-checked for being 18+ by-the-way), is somehow evidence of legitimacy.

PJ Buster
"Until that organization comes clean and is not afraid to show they are operating from a position of legitimacy, the media's one-sided coverage of PJ's exploits is nothing but a ratings-getting exercise. Do you hear yourself? To say "if it was on TV it must be true". That's as silly as saying because PJ has a website (an in fact no bricks-and-mortar headquarters outside of this cyber-reality), they must be doing good things. That just because they have several thousand anonymous registered users salivating at the prospect of furthering their stalking hobby, (none of which are adult-checked for being 18+ by-the-way), is somehow evidence of legitimacy."

Let's keep it in context. I didn't say, "if it's on tv it must be true". If I follow the rationale that you present, it would also be true that a Geocities page that claims to be doing investigative work into PJ is also questionable.

PJ Buster
"That much I do know. I am down-and-dirty addressing the PJ issue, more than just babbling opinion here or on a website."

As I asked earlier, what evidence can you provide to back the "facts" section of your site.

PJ Buster-
First you said "Witch-hunters / baiters / entrappers / stalkers / vigilantes - these are terms to describe the collective behavior of PJ and its followers"

Next it's "You're toying with a slander suit. Why, even PJ tippy-toes around this terminology by saying "wanna be pedophile". This is a prudent legal maneuver. You better re-read your official PJ member's hand-book. When PJ falls, it will be due to you and others who react out of anger and break laws."
IM SUING YOU FOR SLANDER TOO!

You truly are laughable. You are now debating the credentials/legitimacy of the news organization. I suppose they are also a bunch of witchhunters Your a moron. You must not have realized this was shown on the news every night for four nights. The people featured on their actually solicited the CHIEF EXECUTIVE REPORTER for KCTV5 who was posing as a minor. It's the news not survivor you idiot. Do you think the media would open themselves to a lawsuit by reporting fraudulent information?? Does anyone hear actually agree with this fool??

Where's the government website that has the posting about the investigation you refer to. You don't believe the news is credible, but I'm suppose to accept the info on geo cities..

PJ Buster once again you bring nothing concrete to the table.

Anne, for someone who claims to not be directly involved with PJ, you certainly take "witch-hunters / baiters / entrappers / stalkers" personally. Which is the more slanderous - my labeling PJ's collective methods OR you calling me a pedophile when you have not so much as a even dubious chat-log to go on. I disagree with PJ's methods. The way I see it they do exactly those things as I've used terms for. If you are a PJ supporter, then so be it. Join in their hunts by all means. But before you level repulsive insults at my character, please remember we are discussing PJ as a concept. Besides, I believe I said "arm-chair witch-hunters". So geez, grab a popcorn and watch their lynching unfold in their followup forum. If you do nothing but watch, then the term witch-hunter (proper) does not apply to you. But I do stand by the arm-chair part as long as you continue to support them.

Heck, if I called you a witch... it would be less slanderous than "pedophile". Now I'm also "laughable", a "moron", an "idiot", and a "fool". Keep 'em coming. The day I post a personal insult against your character is the day I sink to your level. Keep your fingers crossed and hold your breath please.

You said "You are now debating the credentials/legitimacy of the news organization". Yes, that is so. Chief executive reporter? He's a trained deputized arm of the law now who is qualified to assess psychological makeup of wanna be pedos? Does this not smack of news reporters creating the news rather than reporting it? What does this have to with the news reports lending credence to PJ's activities? Aren't we discussing PJ? Or is KCTV-5 the new PJ on the block?

Beth- I do apologize for name calling. You are right the focus has changed quite a bit. But I would like to point out that PJ Buster's points are not valid. I have asked and so have others numerous times for some kind of evidence to back up ANY of the claims PJ Buster has made, as we can all see not once has any proof been provided. Any of the facts I have stated I'm willing to back up, and more than willing to provide proof of. Furthermore, If I made a false allegation I would own up to it rather than try and weasel my way around it. I'm not a witch hunter or a vigilante, I simply have a realistic understanding of what's going on in the world. I post on PJ regulary, and I speak to many of the busts. I have my opinions on what they are doing,yet I do treat them decently as long as they do the same (I can POVE that too). Pj Buster is here to bad mouth PJ, he refuses to accept any of the evidence I can/have provided. This is why I THINK PJ Buster is a prior bust. I cannot understand anyone being as closed minded on this topic as PJ Buster has been. Pj Buster has even trashed the media for covering a story saying that is bogus also, which they are an extremely credible news organization . Yet, I have done my own checking with the Missouri U.S. District attorney and their is no such ivestigation. If you don't believe that call yourself. I'm mean really don't you find it funny that rather than providing the link to the Missouri U.S district attorney page which features the story we are directed to geocities, (BTW that's PJ Busters little site, remember self promotion). If you don't want to call copy the quoted material PJ Buster provided and google it. That quote does not exist (other than in his website). Beth it's up to you whether you support PJ or not. I don't have any problem with people that don't support their site, and honestly I have had some people give pretty valid reasons as why they don't believe in it. I can respect that. WHat I have no respect for is someone who goes on message board posts false allegations, and once again REFUSE TO PROVIDE PROOF OF ANYTHING. I'd love to see the evidence of all the wrongfully accused busts. Like I said I THINK PJ Buster is a prior bust and I'm also looking into that. I'll let you know either way.
District attorney office link:
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mow/aboutus/usattorney.html
This should give anyone enough evidence to disregard anything PJ says.

I forgot to add one more thing. It is against the law to falsify government documents. I'll be contacting the District attorney office in Missouri shortly to see what they have to say.

Oh and hear we have it. PJ Buster must know that it's a federal offense to have a fraudulent article like that. It's miraculously disapeared. This is why I get so angry. I'm sorry if I offend anyone but he is an idiot.

If it has geocities in its address its not a credible source. If you would both keep yourselves in check this discussion would be alot smoother, not to mention my post wouldnt be railroaded.

If you want to discuss the KCTV 5 report I suggest you both get informed cause niether of you have the full picture.

The busts were forwarded to a house where the KCTV5 reporter was, the reporter did not conduct the online part of the investigation personally, Jay Alternative was the PJ contributor featured in the report. People who did not show to the house were not featured in the news report, no mention was even made that some people did not show at the house. The people who did not show to the house KCTV5 would not report, put on the air, nor even make refrence that they even exsist. Those people still however are on the
PJ site and are getting more harrasment then some who actually did show up.

If you want to argue about this at least get informed, look at this profile,

****WARNING SEXUALLY EXPLICT AND DISGUSTING****
http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?archive=notonyourlife2002

then look at the follow up thread. Maybe then you can discuss you view on them asking people to stop mailing flyers with the picture on it because they thought they had the wrong guy, hope none of those flyers got out. Or maybe you can contemplate on how you feel about them just posting all 3 pictures of people they feel it could be with the notation "Could one of these people be a wannabe peodophile?". Regardless stop railroading the discussion with your bickering.

I've asked once, twice and now three times. I guess I'm either invisible or there is not a "good" answer. Just in case you missed it, I'll post again.

PJ Buster
"That much I do know. I am down-and-dirty addressing the PJ issue, more than just babbling opinion here or on a website."

SMX
As I asked earlier, what evidence can you provide to back the "facts" section of your site.

Nobody important- They have the clips online of the busts showing up, they faces are blurred out but they are there and talking on camera, I positive that 16 people showed up. I apologize if you were railroaded, I should not have let PJ Busters opinions get me so angry.

As for notonyourlife2002- I will respond to you in a little bit. I do have and idea on what happened, but I'd rather answer your question correctly, rather than tell you what I think. Like some people here are doing. But for now If I remember correctly those pictures were in his profile but like I said I'll check into it and get back to you.

I would like to make one thing clear. I do believe in PJ's cause. When these guys are busted all of the info they do provide is put up, and is made available to the public. I'm sure some people do become enraged and act before they know all the facts. I know that the people at PJ watch the forums and verify info. As soon as they know there's a problem they fix it (normally by pulling all info). In my opinion PJ does what they can to make sure info is correct, but unfortunately mistakes do happen. Once again I'm telling you what I think, I'm not speaking on behalf of PJ. I will see if I can find some statistics on that kind of stuff. I don't want to see anyone wrongfully accused. I personally never do anything until I know all the facts are straight.

Im not sure who put in something about neighbors address and phone numbers being posted, but that is normally done to notify the community. I usually will link them so they are not displayed, for a couple of the busts I've worked on I have contacted neighbors. I would normally do this if I have a picture of the bust but cannot verify if they are at a particular address. I would explain why I was calling, and ask them to look at the picture and tell me whether it is/not the neighbor. I have not encountered anyone who was angry about this, I think most people are grateful.
I will find the direct link to the clips and post it in a few.

Nobody Important- I will provide a link to kctv5. If it does not take you directly to the investigation page just go to the home page and hit investigation button and it should come right up. click the investigation link and the media player should come up. I apologize for saying the reporter did the actual chatting. The chats did not begin until reporters were present, the chats were actually conducted by Jay. I was also wrong in saying 16 showed I believe it was more like 30. The reason people that did not show are posted is because it is against the law to even chat online with a minor like that, and they should be posted. Do you suggest it's better to let these guy's run the streets till they have the nerve to go to the minors house? I will attach another post from that site just so were clear once and for all about this being done illegally. This is also taken from Kctv

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -- A local television station can broadcast an investigative report on internet sex predators in its entirety after a federal judge vacated Thursday an earlier order barring parts of the story from the air.

A man identified in the story by CBS-affiliate KCTV5 filed a defamation lawsuit Wednesday, and later in the day, U.S. District Judge Scott O. Wright ordered the station not to broadcast his name and face.

In vacating that decision Thursday, Wright wrote, "A temporary restraining order in this context is a violation of the First Amendment's prohibition against prior restraints."

The report, part of a five-part series, will air on KCTV5 Thursday night at 10 p.m. CST. Station Manager Kirk Black said he was not surprised by Wright's decision to vacate his initial order.
They also have a discussion board there where you can ask any questions about the legitamcy of the news station.
bust link
http://www.kctv.com/Global/category.asp?C=9271&nav=1Puc
Investigation link
http://www.kctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1632339&nav=1PucKe8p

PJ Buster- HAHAHAHA.. You changed the story. Where's the one from yesterday?? I so want to forward that to my friend........

What is KCTV5 suggesting, attempting to do, or attempting to prevent by decideing not to include those individuals or recognition of their exsistance in the report?

Does KCTV5 suggest it's better to let these guy's run the streets till they have the nerve to go to the minors house?

I hope you don't buy that.

The margin for error is much lower and the intention is much clearer, that is why a accountable and professional organization avoided publicly reporting those marks entirely.

What are you talking about. They gave names???? If your talking about pictures the reason faces are not visible is because they did not give the news permission to show they're faces,. When you send a picture through the internet it becomes public information. If this is not what your referring to please explain. By the way that same credible news organization was also promoting PJ, and silently screaming go to perverted-justice.com to see these scumbags. You should realize pedophilia has been frowned upon for decades the victims if they spoke up were basically called liars and outcasts. It is only within the last 20 years or so that pedophilia was recognized as a disease. And more recently it is popping up all the time (due to priests). Pedophilia is a disease that cannot be cured, it must be recognized and treated throught the pedophiles lifetime. Don't you watch the news? Don't you see that kids are been kidnapped daily through the net. If you don't agree with Pj then thats fine. Bring something to the table that's debateable. I will stil figure out what happened with the busts you asked about. But even statistically those few busts mean little, compared to the amount of accurate busts. Every day people are wrongfully accused, don't get me wrong I don't think that's right, but it happens. If Pj was doing anything wrong or illegal you and I both know they would not still be up. Whether or not you agree with that means little. Plenty of things go on in this world I don't agreewith.

You have not watched the KCTV5 report. I have no objections to the report by KCTV5 whatsoever.

I do however object to the line of thinking that a wrongfully accused person does not mean much statistically when reasonable steps can be taken to greatly reduce mishaps when followed rigorously. I object to the idea that a adult can not have a conversation with a minor without becoming sexually aroused, even if in some (rare) cases the conversation is sexually oriented in topic. I object to the general labeling of every single person profiled on PJ as a pedophile by amatuers with out extensive professional psychological training. I object to the rules of engagement or rather the lack there of that PJ operates under which would allow their contributors to use the site as a weapon in personal vendettas.

Nobodyimportant- lets get a couple things straightened out. I don't want anyone wrongfully accused. I would not want that to happen to anyone I know or myself, but the facts are it happens daily.

I have talked to many people that deny it. I say call the cops it's illegal for someone to take your info like that. Pj does not call the cops, but often citizens do and the cops will fully investigate that. If someone's personal items are taken that's completely verifiable by computer forensics which is quite easy to do.

As for your comment on the adult becoming aroused. A adult has no business talking to a minor sexually. Why would anyone have a sexual conversation with a minor. If your a teacher/counselor talking to a minor it's your responsibility to end that conversation once it turns sexual. I can't even believe you would make such a dumb comment.
Every single person featured on PJ is not labeled as a pedophile. They are labeled wanna be, once they bring up sex. Also, all contact IS initiated by the bust + they are normally told to look at the profile, and they are normally asked so you don't mind I'm whatever age.
Maybe licensed professionals should be dealing with this, but this is a epidemic that must be dealt with immediately.
Pedophiles are not trolling for adults.
I have no personal vendatta other than making this issue known, and dealt with.
The cases are not rare, every day kids are kidnapped, raped, molested. If you think it's rare provide some facts.
Statstics are everything. Would we have cops/lawyers/everything else in our lives without statistics? NO everything in our lives are based on statitcs.
I'm absolutelty sick by your referral to an adult, and making it o.k. in your own mind for any adult to talk like that. They have no right that's why it's a federal offense. Maybe you need to look up statistics before voicing your opinoin.
BTW- I'm licensed, I fully admit lot's of people there are not. But that means little when it comes to law. I have statistics. I've offered them many times an no-one here seems to be interested. You want to banter on about what you think. Tell me some truth, something you can prove. I've heard many opinoins here, but I want some evidence,I've provided that for what I've said. If you need more let me know..
Like I stated earlier: How do you think cops catch these people??? They act like children(another fact)

http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?archive=felixxx60

- "I PMed Isaac as a 14 yr old girl, I did it mostly on a lark- I expected he'd know right away what was going on"

Special exception to initiating contact.

My comment regarding conversations between adults and minors was in regard to a publicly broadcast radio show known as "Love Line" I heard when I was driving home from renting movies last night. I was not refering to any specific log or even anything on PJ.

I have provided you proof of a exception to the mark initiating contact above. Since I have provided proof of bait initiating contact (not to mention the 7 or 8 phone verification exceptions I mentioned), I ask what proof is there that partial sets of logs are not being posted? (Would you think I am insane if I said I believed I could find at least 1 profile on PJ where partial logs are posted with notation saying it was caused due to a computer malfunction?) This question lead me to the following possible scenario.

"This may come as a surprise but there are actually men ages 18-70 who can have a non sexual conversation and frankly I don't think males from the age of 18 and up should have to live in fear of every l33thax0r gamer they cross summoning up a entourage of Mcarthiysts to do whatever they can to setup a person to be publicly ridiculed."
(Taken directly from a earlier post by me.)

You feel that teens and children should be able to use yahoo chat without parents living in fear of sexual predators, and I agree with you totally. My reference to a personal vendetta was in no way a reference to your motives for contributing to or supporting PJ.

Anne: "I THINK PJ Buster is a prior bust and I'm also looking into that. I'll let you know either way."

You do that. Let me know. You just can't get it through your head that I may be just against PJ without being a "bust", can you? I have never trolled a chat room for underaged sexual encounters. In an earlier message of Feb 11 you said "You actually have the nerve to call me a pedophile" followed by "shut your pie hole", etc, etc. Why is it you get upset when you believed I was labeling you with that vial term (even though I was commenting on PJ's methods and possible motivations; the place is a haven for operatives having major skeletons in closets), yet you label me, directly, as a personal attack with the same term? Please furnish proof that I am a pedophile / previous "bust".

You apologized once for you language/tone, then you took it back, then you retracted and enforced your vitriol. Then you apologized again to Beth for the name calling. Keep it up. The readers will decide.

Anne, Feb 12 "Oh and hear we have it. PJ Buster must know that it's a federal offense to have a fraudulent article like that. It's miraculously disapeared [sic]. This is why I get so angry. I'm sorry if I offend anyone but he is an idiot."
-- Huh? what was that fraudulent article that disappeared?

For more discussion about KCTV-5's tabloid TV journalism, go here: http://users.boardnation.com/~kctv/index.php?
board=19%3baction=display%3bthreadid=338

I shouldn't even be acknowledging SMX's screaming about backing facts, having a phony email (none.none.com). The PJ Buster site states the following Facts about PJ:
1) PJ is not an accredited organization. It is not a registered entity; not for profit nor charitable organization.
2) The PJ website, its motivations or methods, is not endorsed nor supported by any child protection/advocacy organization.
3) The PJ website, its motivations or methods, is not endorsed nor supported by any legal department, branch, state or federal law enforcement agency.
4) PJ is not endorsed or supported by any institute of higher learning, including any member accredited teachers or professors.
5) PJ agents do not have training/certification of any kind.
6) Pictures of “themselves”, of underaged people, transmitted by the entrappers, or linked to (link edited out) are not given in the chat. You have to wonder whose they are borrowing. And why they are transmitting suggestive child pornography – another violation of Yahoo TOS (terms of service).
7) Your phone number and address are posted for public view.
8) PJ’s mission statement/FAQ clearly states: “We don’t end pedophilia as we know it. That’s not our goal. The goal of this website and our endeavors is to create a “chilling effect” in regional chat rooms … we want to poison the well of these rooms and places by covering enough of them that even if you’re looking for under aged females, an extra bit of paranoia will cross your mind”
9) Among the suggestions to make you see the light, PJ encourages their followers to make crank calls to you at all hours, to send you pornographic material via email, dump bleach on your lawn, put dog excrement in your mailbox, crazy glue your front door shut, mail frozen fish to your address. To hand out excerpts of chat room conversations to your neighbors.
[ This is all in a member’s bio on their website ]

Which one is in dispute here, SMX? If you have FACTS to prove the above wrong, I'm sure the PJ Buster website will be happy to correct any mistakes.

PJ Buster-who's profile is that on the PJ site? The original letter you had on the geocities is not the same as the one you had on there Feb.11th.

My name is James Baetke. Yep, that's my real name. No harm there. I am a reporter for the Rocky Mountain Collegian in Fort Collins, CO (just north of Denver). I am witing a fair and balanced piece on perverted-justice.com and found this web posting. Many of you seem to have some distinct views and comments about the site. Would anyone like to speak on the record about the site? If so, please contact me at jbaetke@msn.com and we can arrange something.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from someone very soon.

Sincerely,

James Baetke

PJ Buster, I simply asked you to provide proof for the claimed "facts" and all you do is regurgitate the list. It looks as if you do not have concrete evidence to back your claims.

Also, I'm far from screaming, just calling you out to see if you will rise to the challenge. You seem to be hung up on people giving valid email addys, I fail to see the importance of this. It just appears to be a way to dodge answering questions.

James, hi. Yes, sounds good. After we confirm your employment there and that you're not a PJ spy milking us for our sources, tips in how PJ might shore-up legal flaws, etc., which has happened in the past. I hope you can understand that. This is a dangerous game, and ANYONE is at risk of being labeled pedophile and stalked by them. Case-in-point, they can and do implement that power for intimidation against their detractors. Witness Anne's personal attacks against me.

SMX - I repeat:
Which one is in dispute here, SMX? If you have FACTS to prove the above wrong, I'm sure the PJ Buster website will be happy to correct any mistakes.

Anne said: "PJ Buster-who's profile is that on the PJ site? The original letter you had on the geocities is not the same as the one you had on there Feb.11th". I honestly don't know what you mean. There was a letter on the geocities site? A government document that was not legally posted you said earlier? Which geocities site are you referring to? Which specific HTML page there? I know of nothing that has been deleted.

I am a police officer and am thrilled to see a site like this working to beat predators at their own game. I can't imagine how PJ Buster could possibly have such strong feelings against the efforts of others to catch people attempting to molest children. I have my opinion about this, but will not voice it here. I will say that I was appalled to read his statement, "I'm going to go out on a limb here,..." was absolutely dusgusting to me. PJ, don't bother remarking on my comments, as I have no desire to discuss the issue with you.
Anne, I am impressed with the time and effort you put into this, but may I give some constructive criticism? The site's credibility and professionalism is directly affected by the manner in which people supporting the site discuss issues. Don't let "certain people" lure you into an idiotic exchange of insults and profanity.
I have said what I wanted to say, and while I probably won't engage in lengthy discussions on this page, I will be watching the site. Rest assurred, if one of the perverts exposed on this site is in my jurisdiction, embarassment online will be the least of his worries. I wish more agencies would put this website to use and follow up with criminal charges.

Wow,
Imagine that...A cop who sactions vigilante actions. A cop who believes himself to be above the law. Right here, in America.

I...I, just can't believe it.

Upon reading my earlier post I feel I was clearly refering to following up via legal channels, not "vigilante actions". I in no way support solving this issue with violence, threats or harassment. I apologize if I worded that in a manner to make people believe I support such actions.

PJ is an agency? Where is it duly registered and classified as such? Are you willing to take their information as gospel even though none of their contributors have undergone criminal background checks? You wish MORE agencies would put them to use? More than the zero that support them now? Why not be the first - put your police division/jurisdiction's name on their website as official supporters. Put your money where your mouth is. Go ahead and deputize these loose cannons who have no training and no credibility. Remember you are accountable, as employees of the taxpayer, as protectors of the innocent, to push back in kind, when they go astray. Are you willing to do that, officer?

PJ Buster
"SMX - I repeat:
Which one is in dispute here, SMX? If you have FACTS to prove the above wrong, I'm sure the PJ Buster website will be happy to correct any mistakes."

Lame and hardly effective. I ask you to prove your "facts" and your only response is for me to disprove them. I didn't expect you to come forth with anything of substance, guess I was right. If this is how you handle questions/concerns, good luck at taking on PJ.

It's not my job to take on PJ. Just to make people aware there is more than one side to the issue. Here's a refreshing break from tabloid reporting for a change:

"TV report, vigilante Web group no help, cops say"
http://www.freep.com/money/tech/npred12_20040212.htm

Yet another refreshing break...

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/7951334.htm

You have to register to view the article, but it does mention: "...A Detroit station, WDIV-TV, also went undercover with perverted-justice.com. Its series started the same night as KCTV's — not coincidentally, on the first night of “sweeps.” All three stations attracted huge audiences and generated plenty of interest, including the arrest of one man caught on tape by the Detroit station..."

WTF, an arrest, wow, I thought law enforcement didn't want anything to do with PJ. ;)

The cop- I appreciate your critisism, and fully agree with you. It's extremely important to me that people recognize what's happening around us. I realize some people are hard headed and regardless of how bad I want for them to understand they simply won't. I'm a professional, and I try and maintain that professionalism in everything I do. Obviously this is an instance that I have not. I won't apologize for the comments I've made to PJ Buster because it's how I feel. I should have voiced my feelings in a better manner. I really do apologize to people who read my posts if I offend them, that truly is not my intention.

Now let's get to the good stuff- I see Pj Buster still can't back any of his "facts" up. Anyway that really does not matter a few of us have pleaded with him/her to back anything up and still nothing. i think that says it all.
As for adults chatting with kids- No adult should be talking online with a minor (unless your a homework helper, or something like that) . I'm 27 years old I have absolutely nothing to talk to a minor about, what could we possibly have in common? If a minor ever approached me and started getting personal I would end the chat immediately. A normal adult does not let chatting with a minor come to a point of arousal.

Address's posted on the website- All are collected legally through public information. Granted some people may not like having there's posted, but then they should not have their info available to the general public. I have not contacted one person who's number has been posted, that was upset about that. They are normally more concerned about the pervert rather than worring about their info being posted. Besides no-one is trying to bother them only warn them.

Everything done on PJ once again is completely LEGAL. Whether anyone here likes it or not I think that they're in for the long haul. Many people/companies/newsorganizations are endorsing PJ (hence news reports, newspaper articles). Police departments don 't have the time or the manpower to fully deal with this epidemic. Yep Buster we have ourselves an epidemic.

Oh before I forget. All of the conversations are initiated by the ADULT never the CHILD. The reason the logs sometimes look like the minor made first contact is because yahoo generally cut's off the top line of your archives when pasting them. If you think one has been done illegally please contact your local police department. Everything is completely verifiable through computer forensics. I totally encourage anyone who thinks they are reading something illegal to contact the police. I've said it many times I don't want the innocent hurt.

PJ Buster did you verify all the info on the news man???

Hey guys

PJ Buster: I have written emails to you and posted media requests on this forum to gain some opposing sources. There are many out there willing to talk about the pros of perverted-justice.com, but none to refute it. Why is this??

I am NO spy and work for a repretable newspaper in Fort Collins, CO. You may certainly call my editor to confirm employment. If that's what it will take to talk with you, so be it. The desk number is 970-491-1392, and my name is James Baetke. Anyone else willing to speak out on their opinion is encouraged to do so...call me at that number or email me at jbaetke@msn.com.

Will any one step forward or is this forum all smoke and mirrors? I really can't figure it out.

Sincerely,

James Baetke

Mr. Baetke, please be patient. I have seen no emails except the public challenge posted on this BLOG. If you hoped for a more expedited response, then perhaps a direct email, with a return address of your media relation's centre, rather than an MSN address (for example something containing colostate.edu) would have been more professional. Your request to speak with PJ refuters was forwarded to my colleagues a few days ago February 15th. Initial contact shall most likely be through official channels of the Fort Collins Colorado State University professional staff, such as General Manager, Production Manager, Broadcast Adviser, etc. The telephone number you have given appears to be for Collegian newsroom staff, so we can start there.

With all due respect, your "Rocky Mountain Collegian in Fort Collins" appears to be a student newspaper. Your in-your-face chicken calling here casts some doubt on it being quote repretable [sic] newspaper. However, to your credit, we have read some of your articles there, for example "Community report shows need to prioritize public safety" - By James Baetke, January 29, 2004, to get an idea where you stand with any bias. So far it appears you articulate well and provide reporting matter-of-factly, which is a plus.

Anne said: "Granted some people may not like having there's posted, but then they should not have their info available to the general public." - That's one of the dumbest things you posted. One can not help having ones address in public records, such as telephone books, real-estate records, car license plate/driver's license databases, etc. It's not a choice. You must also have seen the many times PJ has posted a slew of potential home addresses, employee addresses, schools, etc. - when they're fishing for positive identification. Rest assured there are 100's of PJ clones who have a lot of time on their hands, that call up each and every one of them to ask for names and details about relatives. Such