I think most Americans would be repulsed if you slaughtered any animal from them. Slaughter of any kind is a bloody bussiness. Last year I spent two months working on a farm which included slaughtering chickens. Each time I cut the head off the chicken I would almost faint.

truth is, we'd all be vegetarians if we had to kill our own meat (so-called food). But we don't! Our corpses come neatly packed in our local supermarket. The terrible has been done in our honor and all we have to do is enjoy the fruits of another's labor (funny how it's called the 'fruits of labor' and not the 'meat'). Death brings death. Life brings life.

Read this article. A warning though, if you are a vegetarian, you will realize how silly it is to be one for humanistic reasons afterward...

www.macfilez.net

We eat meat because we are supposed to. We have carnivorous teeth for a reason. We have molar teeth for a reason. WE ARE OMNIVORES. At the same time, I don't think you should make your stomach a 'grave-yard for animals'. I think eating some meat is good, and shouldn't hurt anyones conscience.

If carnivorous predators doesn't eat the herbivores, the herbivores will eat their environment clean of vegetation and all of them die of starvation anyway. Similarly, we humans eat from many sources of nourishment, and we benefit from those sources. It's all about finding the balance.

By the way, is the life of a cow more important than a fly, or a microscopic organism?

Later.

Good question. Without answering the question, I would say a cow and a fly are merely extensions of the same organism.

Is an ankle more important than an elbow?

First of all -- and let's be very clear about this -- most people can eat meat and still live long, healthy lives. There are people who eat 90% meat diets and live to be 85.

For me, it is simple... vegetables are generally less expensive and healthier for you than meat. It's a generalization, but it is mostly true. To me, there is very little room for argument here.

On the arguing side of things, there is that little issue about the fact that you are needlessly killing an animal to feed yourself (yes, needlessly). You have a choice when you eat meat. Your body does not require meat to stay alive. People might believe they need it, but they really don't.

I personally strive for a 100% vegetarian diet, but it's not always easy. It means you gotta do most of your own cooking. Aside from asian restaurants, 99% of food establishments here in the U.S. cater primarily to meat eaters.

On the philosophical side of things, I believe our treatment of animals is not much different from our treatment of human beings. At our current population of 6+ billion people, we are starting to look more and more like slaughterhouse animals ourselves. Maybe that is the big joke on us.

Did you read the maddox page? And did you read the related article on it? If not, the maddox page is just plain funny, and the article is pretty important.--When you get a chance.

Eating just vegetables? I would like to try, but I think I may start to think I'm going to die or something. Nah, but for real, I like meat, not as much as most. I like my fish, chicken, and I'm a big lamb eater. I think I could go maybe a good 3 weeks to a month max without meat.

I figure God made this planet for worship. We only live here and eat food to give our bodies more life to worship God. The whole purpose of eating is for God. We must read God's name before killing an animal for eating, because the animal's life is from God, and it's being taken is only by God's permission. But you are right though, we should try to eat less meat. I still think/believe eating meat is okay, because God never outlawed it. Even the misguided Hindus originally ate meat, and today the Brahmins eat meat and forbid it to dalits, and a prophet of God in their scripture will come who will be an Arab and a meat-eater, we all know that was Muhammad, peace be upon him.

Muhammad said don't make your stomach a grave-yard for animals, this encouraged people to eat little meat. The Prophet ate meat rarely, usually just a little sprinkle every once in a while. This may have been due to his charitable ways though. Peace.

Nobu... all this religious talk is kinda killing the conversation. To me, vegetarianism is much more than a religious issue. If God personally told me to do this or that... I wouldn't necessarily do it.

I did read the article.

Get me straight: I'm not completely against eating meat. But I think the way we do it is vicious and wasteful. And I think the way we get strangers to kill animals for us is eerily close to the way we get strangers to go kill human animals on our behalf (i.e. warfare).

To me, arguing for the needless eating of animals is nearly the same argument for the needless killing of people.

And if you bring up religion again, you are basically throwing up a dead end to the discussion. I don't need a book to tell me that eating meat is right or wrong. To me, the thought of bringing an animal into this world, to kill it and eat it... when I could have just eaten some beans and rice... is simply bloodthirst.

If blood is what you want... blood is what you get. Live by the sword... die by the sword.

I guess you could say I'm fighting your religious cliches with secular cliches.

It's funny, because I consider myself a spiritual person, but discussions like this suggest to me that religion is a poor substitute for critical, independent thinking.

Long live free thinkers!

It almost like the Social Contract by Hobbes that men are inherently evil (or was that Locke?). I only skimmed the posts, therefore, I may reiterate what someone said, however, humans treat each other like shit anyway do you think a cow is gonna be spared the death penalty? or what about the number one all-time "sin" meat, pork that's prolly a whole weblog in itself.

pexdiggy,

You're statement was stupid, and doesn't belong in a place of serious exchange of opinions.

The pork issue is a contained in one of the branches of belief not the root. You are criticising one facet of a particular God-given diet. But what is the purpose of diet or eating, to eat what tastes good :o) ? Or is it to nourish oneself.

If I eat food that I obtained by stealing money, that food is just as harmful to me as if I ate pork, i.e. morally wrong because it is in contravention of God's way of life bestowed on mankind.

If you, pexdiggy, understand how the universe works, and what will harm you physically psychologically/socially, or spiritually better than The Knower of All, i.e. God Almighty, then you are as wise as the ass (I mean the donkey) who carries books on its back. Keep on kickin' Wilbur!

Now on to the real audience--people who don't just egg on other people.

-------------------------

God - the universe = God; (he was and always will be) the universe - God = nihility (or your calculator will say syntax error, you are dumb for making such assumptions).

Let's not be bloodthirsty, just eat beans and rice, assuming the beans and rice don't mind.Can we stop talking about vegetables and focus on what we need--water.

Do you really think an animal will object to being slaughtered for humans to eat? Even if they could speak, it'd go something like..."You have to catch me to eat me, I want to enjoy this life a bit more, besides, I'm not sure if you are one of the crueler humans or not. I'll see you in the next life anyway, so be sure and take my life as peacefully as you can, don't waste my meat please. Be gentle. And wash your hands."

Seriously, you are still thinking completely devoid of the reality that He (you know who) has a say in what you do. It isn't natural thinking to make assertions which obscure reality or to assume that certain factors which exist don't matter and don't affect other systems.

Shall I assume my car will run regardless of if I don't refuel it? I'm just saying that blotting out God in all of this is shor-sighted. It's like studiying politics and ignoring the guys on top, i.e. the presidents and other people in power positions, like they don't matter. If you don't see it my way that's fine, but I reserve the right to see the world inclusive of all known components and proponent, and not play ignorant or close one eye to see things two-dimensionally.

Peace.

does anyone know a website that has a chart of what foods to combine to make a complete protein? i tried looking for an hour.. theres lots of info but i dont know how to find a real chart..

does anyone know a website that has a chart of what foods to combine to make a complete protein? i tried looking for an hour.. theres lots of info but i dont know where to find a real chart..

First of all, vegetarianism is not just eating vegetables, you can eat fish, potatoes and pulses plus loads of other stuff.
Plus, there is an argument that humans weren't even supposed to eat meat. This was put forward by Henry Salt who was one of the first people to write and object to eating meat. He said that our teeth and intestines were not made for eating meat. Its just a theory, but it is worth looking into.

A M I, 13 years

A M I, there are different kinds of vegetarianism. they do seem to get lumped together a lot of the time. this is what i can make of it.
VEGETARIAN: does not eat meat/fish/seafood basically flesh, but does/can eat egg/milk/honey etc
PESCATARIAN/DEMI-VEGETARIAN/PESCO-VEGETARIAN: does not eat land animal flesh but does eat water animals fish/prawns/lobsters...
VEGAN: does not eat any animal product/by-product/flesh.

a lot of 'veggies' i know are actually pescatarian.

peas.

What makes you thing that those little stubby canines in our mouths make us carnivores? Gorillas have even longer canines and they're still vegetarians.
Carnivores generally:

1. Have very short digestive tracts (three times their body length) to excrete decaying meat waste rapidly.

2. Produce very strong stomach acid - typically 20 times stronger than that of a non-carnivore - to digest bone, sinews and large quantities of meat.

3. Produce small amounts of saliva because digestion does not begin in the mouth with carnivores.

4. Tend to have jaws that can only move up and down, which means that they cannot grind their food and can hardly chew at all. Meat is torn off with their long, sharp incisors and canine teeth, and is swallowed in large chunks. The teeth are also shaped and angled to move with a shearing motion to cut through bone and tough sinews.

5. Show great agility in catching prey, and have sharp claws and strong jaws to bring down, kill and consume prey.

However, non-carnivorous animals and humans generally:

1. Have long digestive tracts that are about the same proportion to body length as in grass-eating animals (12 times). The great length allows the longer period of time that is needed for fruit and vegetables to be digested completely.

2. Have weak stomach acid, which is all that is necessary for the slow digestion of grasses, grains and vegetable matter.

3. Produce a larger quantity of saliva, which also contains the enzyme ptyalin. The plentiful saliva and the ptyalin begin the digestion of grains, fruit and vegetables in the mouth. Carnivores neither eat these kinds of food nor do they chew their food, which means that digestive enzymes in their saliva are absent.

4. Have jaws that move with a grinding motion. This grinding together of the relatively flat teeth reduces the particle size of the food and exposes it to the saliva and ptyalin in the mouth. Human canine and incisor teeth are small compared to those of a carnivore and are, perhaps, better suited to biting tough vegetables rather than animal skin and bone.

5. Have no claws, relatively weak jaws and not a great deal of agility. For example, if a chicken is placed in an open space it would be extremely difficult for a human to catch it; we don't appear to be designed for that sort of activity.

The evidence seems clear that humans have evolved to eat little or no meat.

Amber... thanks for joining the discussion. I am familiar with this list of biological arguments against eating meat. When I first heard it, it made sense to me. But these arguments are specious at best.

First, to say that humans are not meant to eat meat -- for whatever reasons biological or cultural -- is contradicted by the fact that humans eat meat because it tastes good and is generally good for the body. Even hamburgers and porkchops, liver and tongue tacos, and brain sandwiches are good for you, if eaten in moderation. Meat provides a rich source of protein, along with iron and other vitamins and minerals. Biologically speaking, it is clear that we are designed to be omnivorous. You must remember that animals eat raw meat, while humans generally cook it. That is a factor you did not mention.

Second, there are areas of the world where meat is simply more economical than a vegetarian diet. For the indigenous people of extreme climates such as the Arctic... meat is not a luxury... it is essential. In addition, studies have shown that Eskimos were perfectly adapted to a diet consisting almost exclusively of meat and fat from marine mammals. Their health was excellent. They lived long lives and had some of the lowest rates of heart disease in the world. Who would have thought seal skin and whale skin would contain Vitamin C! Who would have thought that a low carb, low fruit, low vegetable diet could be so healthy. And yet, for some people this is true. But not all people.

Third, most doctors agree that a diet rich in seafood is a good one. Aside from flax seeds, the only other major source of essential fatty acids (or amino acids or whatever they call em) is fish. The highest longevities on the planet are found among those who eat a balanced diet of vegetables and lean meat, especially fish.

Now I'm not saying this means people should eat meat. I myself, eat about 99% vegetarian. What I am saying is that most people can eat lots of meat and still be just as healthy as a vegetarian. If you exercise and don't eat too much red meat... you will be fine. And some people can eat tons of red meat, never exercise... and still be fine. People are different. But in general, your health will not suffer for eating lots of lean meat.

The reason why I, personally, don't eat much meat is that it simply FEELS right for me. I don't like the idea of needless killing of animals. Good meat is expensive, especially salmon and trout (my favorites). I don't like the idea of raw meat in my fridge (for some reason I associate it with rot and decay). I like the fact that my farts don't smell like rotting carcasses. I never get constipated. I never get the runs. And I simply feel good when I eat vegetarian. Also, I am more likely to get the vitamins and minerals I need from my diet.

The bottom line is that vegetarianism should be a personal decision. Diet is a personal lifestyle decision. But it can have a big impact. Most people eat meat because it is part of their culture. Also, a vegetarian diet takes effort and planning. Vegetarianism is not easy. Most people are lazy about their diet, same way they are about politics, religion, etc...

For me, the best way to convert meat eaters is to cook vegetarian food they can't resist.

To the people who are 99% vegetarian. Get real. Either you are or you aren't. That is like saying I am 95% married. I only cheat about three times a year.

Argue what you will, the path of least harm is fine, canines and incisors, whatever. The basic fact here is that animals live and die with or without us.

You can't use the field animals vs forage factory animals as an argument. If 95% of the grain in North America does indeed go to animals, the meat-eater is still responsible for more carnage than the Vegetarian. Plus, the reason that most small animals breed capriciously is because many of them die because when winte comes, with or without a combine, the voles die. Not enough cover/food/land to support the large populations.

I wish we could be a responsible agriarian society and use the animals well, and perhaps to eat when one got too old to live any longer, but we don't do that. Until then I will fight the good fight and say a little steak never hurt anyone, except the cow.

headpushlap... are you a vegetarian?

I USED TO EAT MEAT BUT SLOWLY I STARTED NOT LIKING IT ANYMORE. I HATED THE WAY IT MADE ME FEAL SUPER FULL, EVEN THOUGH IT TASTED GREAT WHILE EATING IT. ANOTHER THING THAT TURNED ME OFF ABOUT IT, IS THE FACT THAT ALL MEAT IS INJECTED WITH HORMONE AND A WHOLE BUNCH OF MAN MADE CRAP.. THAT WAS THE ULTIMATE DISCUSTING TRUTH THAT MADE ME STOP EATING MEAT.

I THOUGHT THIS WAS A FUCKING HIP HOP SITE?

Don't worry, I wouldn't expect tolerance or openmindedness from a "true" hip hopper.

Eric who wrote the original post is an idiot. I like dogs but come on dont be a moron here a cow is no different than a dog. now since this is about rap I thought. Beastie Boys are vegetarians , Russel Simmons is a vegetarian , Chuck D is a vegetarian , Masta Killa of Wu Tang is a vegetarian , Mos Def is one, So is Dead Prez of coursze and andre 3000 also community leader Minister Farrakhan plus tons of other great rap artists and community leaders and producers like the above mentioned. not too mention Peter Tosh , Mutabaruka, Beenie Man , Horace Andy, Sizzla, Anthony B, and tons of reggae artists not all but ALOT of them are vegetarians .

A QUICK QUESTION WHAT DOGS I HAVE LIK 10 I LOST COUNT A LONG TIME AGO :p ANYWAYS I AM A VEGGITAIRION. LOL... NOTIN RELLEY TO SAY SEE YAL LATER

I'm a vegetarian and i do it for moral reasons, i also do not eat fish. I haven't heard one good arguement it's actually sad. No vegetarians seem to be talkin on this thing they could educate you.

I'm a vegetarian. I don't eat meat, fish, gelatin, rennet (although I'm worried I might be eating some), nor do I buy leather goods. My philosophy is avoid anything that an animal had to die for me to get. I originally did it for health reasons, but I took a moral stance on it later on. I have a dog, and I believe that animals have as much of a right to life as humans do. I wouldn't want to be bred for slaughter, I wouldn't want my dog to be bred for slaughter, so therefore I shouldn't want a cow to be bred for slaughter. As to the argument that humans are designed for eating meat:

There is plenty of evidence agiast it that has already been said here.

If you say that you are only doing what evolution and instinct tells you to do, you are giving up your humanity since you give up your right to make your own decisions.

If you give up your humanity, then you are no better than the animals that you believe are below you, and therefore you give up your own right to life.

However, I don't think people actually feel justified in eating animals for any reason. People feel guilty about eating meat. Up until the point that I went veggie I know I did. I always tried to justify it. It killed me inside. When I went veggie a huge burden was lifted off my shoulders. I was morally clean. The reason people don't go veggie is because they think they will fail. I did too. I want all carnivores to know that it's not as hard as you make it to be. The first step is trying.

Hey I've been vegetarian for about 6 years now. I lived on a small farm when i was younger so I know all about the things like cutting testicles off calfs which most people have never experienced, and would never want to. Originally I became vegetarian because I got into yoga and then I found out lots about the health and environmental benefits. I find it really easy as long as you have money to buy good food. A bit easier to keep the weight off as well cause you don't eat fatty takeaway meat products. People can make a fuss sometimes when they are cooking for you though i tell them not to worry i have no probs just eating the salad or vegies and they can have the steaks. I use to like eating our hand fed cattle, now the idea of eating meat actually turns me off a bit. Anyway I'm happy being veggie and I recommend it. Good for your health apparently, lots of controversy and no clear answers in the science though.

I am in the process of deciding, to go veggie or just cut back on my meat.Until I read through all of the posts I had no idea that,there are so many different positions on this subject matter.I want to be healthy.I want a combined diet thats best fit me and gives long life.I do not wish to adorn a title.But if a title becomes a buy product of my choice. Then I will embrace that when the time comes.I can see very good points made from several of the posts here.H'mmm, let's see.Teeth,God,Morals,Health,Choice,and following the stars on sceen.These all have very intresting points of influence.I am looking for,."Just the Facts,mam" .Can some one produce for me a break down of the factual pros and cons ,health wise of three things.
1).Eating a combination of both in moderation.-V-
2).Eating Veggies only ,No Fish or FLesh.-V-
3).Combined nutrition for a whole diet disgned to full fill the bodies required needs on a daily basis.
I think this is a good start,for my first time posting anything online.
All of your thoughts and positions are welcome.Please respond freely.